Bad time for Tesla Drivers

There is, clearly, a LOT of antipathy and negativity about EVs - particularly, it seems, TESLAs - on this thread and elsewhere so I thought I’d chime in with a note of some sympathy for EV owner/drivers in general.

It’s not that I own or drive a TESLA - or any other EV - but I’ve experienced the now fairly well acknowledged phenomenon of “range anxiety” more than a few times in the past 25 or so years of owning and driving my personal and preferred choice of vehicles - dual fuel, that being (usually) LPG/propane and petrol.

Some of you may recall the surge of interest in ‘alternative fuels’ following the oil supply crises in the late '70s and early '80s (I think) and the subsequent, fairly rapid growth of the “conversion” industry where ordinary petrol fuelled cars were converted - often rather crudely - to also run on LPG … hence the “dual fuel” epithet.

Those early, pioneering years of dual fuel were something of a curate’s egg for the automotive industry - do I hear ‘echoes of the present’? - insomuch as some of the consequences of the crudity of the industry and its products led to increased regulation and restriction, much of it necessary and understandable, but they also led to considerably enhanced design, development and production of those same products. Gas systems or, rather more specifically, autogas systems went from crude “mixer ring on the manifold” to fully electronic, fuel injected systems within the space of about 10 years. That’s probably no big deal in the greater scheme of automotive change, especially for a technology that was more an ‘alternative route’ than a brand new, pioneer highway, but it is, I think, indicative of the potential viability foreseen in the wider product arena. The fact that, in the UK, two of the major mainstream car makers - Ford and Vauxhall - were supplying “factory” converted, dealer supported dual fuel vehicles speaks volumes about the prospective popularity and profitability of what was (and still is) broadly seen as a limited, niche market. That market never really did fulfill its clear potential - the reason for that failure remains a bit of a mystery to me. The wider benefits, the potential and the advantages that could have been grown exponentially are clear and obvious - cheaper, cleaner, “greener” fuel that could even, in most circumstances, also be retro-adapted to a large proportion of the existing ‘automotive estate’ but there seemed (seems?) to be an almost illogical reluctance of the wider car/vehicle driving public to adopt - and adapt to - what might easily be seen as a positive, progressive change in the automotive status quo. Whatever you want, whatever you need … OH, SORRY, not THAT status quo … moving swiftly on -

So, it’s here in particular that I can begin to relate to and empathise with, specifically, EV drivers (as opposed to hybrid, etc.) be that TESLA or any other make of all electric car and … whisper it quietly … possibly/eventually/ultimately motorcycle! The “range anxiety” issue has been (almost) as real for me as for any Tesla owner. The infrastructure for autogas is, and has been for some years now, shrinking from a fairly low base and that has been a real problem for me on a number of occasions but most particularly on the long distance trips I’ve done to, for instance, Scotland or the north or east of England. “Ah yes,” I hear you say “but you can just flick the switch and run on unleaded like any ‘normal’ car driver!” and that is absolutely the case, m’lud. However, I’m deeply LPG-mindset rooted, now and strive to make ANY journey, near or far, as much on LPG as it is feasible and practical so to do.

I’ve driven a few all electrics (MBz’s) for work and have always been impressed with the quiet, refined, almost stress-free progress they make. Well, almost always - the SMART EQ being returned to an owner in deepest, darkest Cornwall did take more than twice as long for the journey as any ‘normal’ car would have done, but, moving swiftly on …

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE the sound of an ICE - it’s one of the reasons that I own a number of inline triple motorcycles and also a couple of V8 cars. Yep, petrolhead, without a doubt! But, I have to acknowledge that there is going to be a point at which my petrolhead predilections will be outdated and, quite possibly, outlawed. Having said that, given the seemingly slow pace of change I’ll likely have no concerns whatsoever about that as I’ll be ash dust in the wind by then.

The point is, I guess, that we are facing an inevitable, albeit slow, decline in the availability and use of petrol/diesel engined cars and I imagine the rate of diminishing returns for their use will simply accelerate while, hopefully, the overall cost of ownership and the availabilty of EVs will become more ‘real world’ practical. Never say never, I know, but I honestly can’t see any medium to long term future scenario where EVs aren’t the dominant factor in automotive ownership and use.

I would, however, hope that Elon won’t be the only “winner” from what I think will be the inevitable forthcoming change.

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That’s a very well-balanced and reasonable view on the changing state of what powers our vehicles, in my opinion. I also used to have a duel-fuel LPG car some years ago. It was supposed to be the ‘green’ future back then and we were promised increasing refuelling points, which never really materialised. The nearest LPG pump was about 8 miles away but I could live with that. You learn to fill up when nearby. Long journeys, often to deepest, darkest Cornwall as it happens, were planned with necessary stops in mind, much like EV drivers do now. There are far more charging points available now than there ever were LPG pumps. On the other hand, the pumps were usually functional and each car only occupied it for a few minutes.

I had a plug-in hybrid car until recently. The batteries only lasted about 20 miles but many of my journeys were completed without using a drop of petrol, especially during the height of Covid when I was working from home. One tank of fuel lasted me over 6 months then.

Tesla have a brand edge but the big manufacturers will, I believe, eventually overtake Elon’s outfit. They have the resources, despite the apparent (falling) value of Tesla as a market leader. All this talk of autonomous vehicles as a ubiquitous form of transport that helps fuel (no pun intended) the Tesla hype is a long way off, if it ever arrives. The shine will come off.

As we move in to the next decade, my prediction is that electric won’t be the only game in town. The infrastructure required is often cited, quite rightly, as a major challenge. As research in to hydrogen and synthetic fuels continues they could be the new hope for the range-anxiousy and people who don’t have the patience to charge their cars for 30 minutes when they could be off the forecourt in 5. Then again, battery technology is advancing at a rate, too. Faster charging and better range will come. The men in white coats are working on problems like the scarcity of lithium with sodium perhaps becoming a viable alternative.

I hope we don’t lose the ICE engines (cheaper synthetic fuel, please) but the writing is on the wall. In the meantime I’ll continue to enjoy my inline triples and V8 for quite a few years to come, I’m sure.

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I personally don’t have a problem with EVs Adie, they’re just not suitable for what I need a car to do dud to their initial cost and limited flexibility. For me it’s the sanctimonious attitude of some EV drivers that piss me off, looking down from their high ground in their vastly expensive sons of a milk float trying to justify their choice like some evangelical zealots, forgetting of course that until recently they drove the very cars they now dispise.

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Maybe they were vegan :thinking:

Whilst I don’t use the Autogas pumps for propulsion fuel I do understand that we all thought it might be a future alternative.
I do use Autogas in my motorhome as I have an underslung tank for cooking, heating, fridge etc. I do tend to fill as soon as I see a pump from around 1/2 a tank.
I think that this fuel becoming popular for propulsion was to some extent a none starter as we all remembered just what the government did to the price of diesel after we were all told how much better it was.
The fear was that they would do it again and then the cost of LPG would be the same as petrol and diesel. People don’t fall for those con tricks more than once.

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Vulpes, might be able to correct me if I’m wrong but here in the Netherlands there seems to be plenty of chargers. Even at work we have 4 chargers, however I can do a few hundred kms in my Aygo and filling up takes a few minutes only. I’d own an EV if they were not so expensive and the range wasn’t so poor compared to petrol or diesel.

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“People don’t fall for those con tricks more than once.”

We do…

I did with ducati sales people… Twice!!!
Feckers.

We don’t as easily though hence the slow uptake of LPG initially and now battery cars are struggling to be readily accepted. We all know that as soon as we get a battery car the government will astronomically increase the tax on electric.
They do have past form for this type of thing.

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I’m not sure it’s true to say EVs aren’t being accepted, despite the concerns many people have…

I believe 2025 is the year car tax comes in for lectric cars.

People do seem to be buying more of them but I do think that’s because ICE are going to be banned.
If, like when ICE vehicles were first made. They sold because they were better than the previous mode of transport, the horse.
Why do ICE vehicles need banning to force us into battery cars? If battery cars are better the move will happen naturally just like when ICE took over from horses.

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Good question. I think at least some of the answer is that governments want to be seen to be taking action to appease organisations like the BBC and climate activists and also that change can often give the illusion of progress if carried out in a certain way.

The government will eventually be losing £25 billion per year from fuel duty. It will be interesting to see what they have in mind to replace that. Road pricing - you pay per mile driven? Great excuse for a tracker to be fitted to every vehicle. Also makes it easy to generate speeding fines. I don’t think the future looks very bright for car/bike enthusiasts.

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Take a look at Greater London, and others. Short term they’re expanding ULEZ to try and close a £300m gap, next move, already under way, the LTN. Low Traffic Neighbourhood. Easy one to drive through without realising, until the ticket arrives. Ask my cousin :unamused:

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Already plans to expand Ulez type zones to Bristol, Birmingham, Cardiff etc…pay per mile is on it’s way.

@Tigcraft showed me this… look up 15 minute citys

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Clean air zones on politics live BBC2 12:15 today.

Should have been 1st December this year and at least £100. This subsidising the wealthy car owner has gone on for long enough.

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Nearly as bad as subsidising wealthy pensioners, but less expensive. I’ll get my coat… :grinning: